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30 July 2010

Julia Gillard laughs during a press conference (AAP: Alan Porritt)

Voters want the darnedest things

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Lauren Rosewarne

Lauren Rosewarne

Cartoonists sketched vividly and journalists nattered ceaselessly about Julia stabbing Kevin in the back. Of course. Because the metaphor was irresistible.

Gillard spent weeks floridly repeating her commitment to not challenging. She'd kick goals for the Dogs before challenging. Do burnouts in Jessica Watson's dinghy before challenging. Something something about flying to Mars before challenging. Flash forward a week and she's sitting behind Rudd's desk.

Cinema and literature and reality TV love the femme fatale. The black widow. The dragon lady with talons and heels. A shiv in the ribs and a knife to the back. Backstabbing Rudd, deceiving the electorate: trust inevitably would become an election issue.

Ah, but trust what exactly?

Gillard's ascension was accompanied by fanfare and hijinks and tears. But how in the world was anyone surprised? Politics is a filthy game. It attracts people who want to rock the boat. People who like power. Who like the trappings of power. People who want to lead. It's a game and a farce and a folly. If you're in parliament today you either got there through cunning and stealth, or you're a ring-in athlete who trumped a branch stalwart. It's a game and a spectacle and a circus. Gillard seized her opportunity. She played the game by the rules that men always have. If Rudd trusted her, that was his error. But to claim Gillard's actions reveal anything about her abilities as a PM is one awfully long bow to draw.

I have a "friend" who is a real estate agent. Socially he tells people he's a hospital administrator. Apparently women don't sleep with real estate agents. (At least they shouldn't!) Readers Digest confirmed this in their 2010 list of trusted professions. We trust ambulance drivers. Nurses. Firefighters. We trust vets. Politicians? We trust them less than lawyers. Less than roof insulation installers. Less than sex workers. Less than lying scumbag real estate agents. And only slightly more than telemarketers. We've never trusted them and backroom shenanigans merely validate our doubt.

But what's the big deal here?

My dad often expresses his scepticism about people by claiming he wouldn't trust them to walk his dog. Ah, but nobody's asking a politician to walk their bloated spaniel. Or to collect their mail. Or to pick grandma up from the airport or babysit the nubile daughter. We're charging them to run the country. Skills of leadership and policymaking have nothing to do with trust. Delusions of trust may win votes but it's a quality irrelevant to governing.

Elections spotlight many peculiar electorate wants. Peculiar, because most of what we think we want has nothing at all to do with policy. Alongside trustworthiness, we want out pollies to be likeable. Apparently we like watching them schmooze around food courts. Awkwardly kiss babies. Read storybooks to toddlers. Make lasagne with uninterested school kids. We want them to seem like nice people. To imagine having them 'round for a barbie. Likeability of course, has nothing to do with leadership and yet if we can't knock back a beer with them, apparently we'll struggle voting for them.

And most revoltingly we want them to be famous. Famous not because of innovative policy or forward thinking of course, but famous by those same dubious standard we judge entertainers. We want to see them on bad television shows. Singing. Dancing. Having a burl on Masterchef. We want them to charm us. To show us their funny side. Their zany side. And it's so much better when they're real celebrities. Why do parties vigorously try and court the Eddie McGuires and Cathy Freemans? Because voters salivate for likeability and fame and the ability to run and ski and rock and or roll. Lead? Meh. We'll just bitch later about their failings.

Oh and of course we want them to be upstanding. Certainly no infidelity. No gay sex clubs. No secret love child. No whips or fish-net stockings. Bad husband? Bad leader. Childless? Barren policy. Atheist? Immoral. Even though the rollicking under our sheets has nothing to with leadership we'll demand they're morally upstanding anyway. We won't ever believe it of course - we probably won't ever actually like them - but we'll add upstanding citizen to their job description. So that they can fail. So that our distrust is validated.

The responsibilities of politicians are about government. When they're working, when they're on our dime, their job is policy. Touting their often shoddy wares and molesting Plucka Duck is not what the job's about. That people let this rubbish influence their votes is just thoroughly depressing.

We need to be able to trust our lovers. Like our lovers. Trust our family. Like our friends. We need to pretend that we find Leonard Di Caprio entertaining enough to endure the film. Trust our politicians? Like them? No. We should want them to do their bloody job. Do it well. The rest is just chatter.

Dr Lauren Rosewarne is a Lecturer in the School of Social and Political Sciences and at the University of Melbourne.

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Comments (113)

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  • KD :

    02 Aug 2010 5:26:28pm

    I've reached the point where I think that even thinking adults have their brains reset every couple of years.

    How many times has their been a leadership spill for either Labor or Liberal, in the last 25 years, that didn't involve somebody getting the boot against their will?

    How often is "x has my full support" really code for "I'm just waiting for the right moment to take him out"?

    Gillard isn't the first leader of recent years to take leadership by coup. Leadership changes, often by force, are part of federal politics. Why is it suddenly news, and why the vitriol for her and not the others?

  • Bruce :

    02 Aug 2010 12:34:44am

    Lost all respect with the Womans Weekly spread, the only way that cr*p could be justified is if Tony Abbott's life story made Ralph magazine.

    Better still, maybe a WW spread on Tony Abbotts wife'-No wouldnt work, she isnt as exciting as Gillards partner he would come steaming in knocking out carport to the sound of dancing bottles on the driveway-yep sell more copies that one.

    Funny article this one, driven by the media backing a Trojan horse.

    After all it is the top job-why wouldnt you want a smart, clean living, ethically and morally grounded individual who believes in something and knows what its like to be parent. Yep, definitely a poor choice give us someone who we can make a 2 hour telemovie one day and hopefully he can leave his ex mentally rotting away whilst being called a national hero. Someone who a female PM can idolise.

    The sooner this shameful phase is put to bed the better.

      • Stuffed Olive :

        03 Aug 2010 9:25:19am

        Abbott and family did do a Women's Weekly spread but everyone is ignoring it. Abbott also did a spread in the weekend Australian magazine not long ago and that is being ignored too. Do you respect him for that?

  • DocMercury :

    01 Aug 2010 9:37:45pm

    Tony Abbott is disqualified (by me) for using too many plastic bottles of water.
    Too many is any number more than zero.

  • ProtoCol :

    01 Aug 2010 4:46:26pm


    Any man that rants on about the 'gift' of virginity, then admits that he may have fathered a love child, and has the views on abortion that Abbot is reputed to have, can only be described as an MCP. While this apparently does not matter to Lauren, it matters to me. I will not vote for a man whose policies will be viewed from an MCP perspective.

    Sad, isn't it?

  • Joyce :

    01 Aug 2010 1:54:39pm

    Thanks, Lauren, for an astute article so far ahead of all the sensationalist writing readers of The Drum had to endure. Mr. Rudd was not "assassinated", for instance, he was replaced. PM Gillard had the numbers. It's called Democracy and until someone comes up with a more equitable system, we'd better support that.

  • Barry :

    01 Aug 2010 12:18:12pm

    "We should want them to do their bloody job. Do it well."

    Just what is the modern politicians job?

    It was once envisaged that the House of Reps was made up of politicians that were elected as a representing voice of the people from their corresponding electorate.
    Now only independents serve that purpose.
    Your local major-party rep only serves in your electorate as mouthpiece for their party's leader.

    Likewise, Senators were once elected by voters to review bills on their behalf before being passed as legislation.
    Once again party-politics has corrupted this process and now a Senator's job is to pass legislation as required by the party leader.

    Not knowing what a politicians real job is makes it confusing for me to decide how to vote.

    Do I vote for the politician who I know would represent my views if allowed to and given the chance?
    Or do I vote for the party that best fits, somewhat uncomfortably, my views?
    The two are different.

      • greg :

        02 Aug 2010 11:19:39am

        Difficult question for all politicians. But those in government should govern, competently.

  • BLZBob :

    01 Aug 2010 12:03:00pm

    All I want is a government that will work towards putting an end to slavery in all it's forms.

  • Les of Queensland :

    01 Aug 2010 9:37:35am

    We have seen Julia sink her ship, Bullet holes causing big leaks, missed the foot and went through the hull. Something stinks here as though there is a hidden agenda. What will happen if TONY gets in, to me it appears we have been totally sold out and what if Greens get balance of Power??? why are we not being given policies that concern the whole nation and not just select groups does this mean we are getting something we do not expect???

  • Doug Quixote :

    31 Jul 2010 9:38:59pm

    Intelligent, likeable, competent.
    Three words which describe Julia Gillard well.
    Qualities which should ensure her election in any sensible electoral scenario.
    The End.

      • DocMercury :

        31 Jul 2010 11:07:39pm

        Fair enough, but it is still sad that she is handicapped by two houses of parliament. ;)

      • Allan :

        01 Aug 2010 10:14:47am

        Hi Doug, where did you get your rose coloured glasses from.

        Gillard is no more intelligent than any other Australian, even many who oppose her.

        Likeable, yes some people like her, some people would love her, on the other hand some people would dislike her and others again would even hate her. That though is reality for you....

        Competent, not sure where you got this from, she really handled her education portfolio with all the dignity of a two year old. Though don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind being paid a couple of million dollars to provide goods worth a few hundred thousand, that is what I call a good trade off in my favour. Can't wait to see what she would do with our GDP and economy if she cannot even get a few building right.

      • Doug Jiorselph Awhole :

        01 Aug 2010 1:33:38pm

        Intelligent, likeable, competent.
        Three words which describe Tony Abbott well.
        Qualities which should ensure his election in any sensible electoral scenario.
        The End.

      • Michael :

        01 Aug 2010 6:07:27pm

        Intelligent and competent? If she was so competent like you say when she was so keen to scrutinise the pension increase, which according to my parents who are on the old age pension just changed the payments and they are no better off anyway. Why didn't she apply the same scrutiny to the school buildings and also the pink batts? I could ask the same of the petrol commissioner, grocery watch etc but where do you stop. You obviously believe Kevin was responsible for all those failures and no one else was involved. Any sensible election scenario would involve voters looking at the waste, mismanagement, political spin and failures of a government. Unfortunately some people are so blind to one party or another they cannot see the wood for the trees or the incompetence and mismanagement. Likeable well she might be but she has failed any test of intelligent and competent.

          • KD :

            02 Aug 2010 5:32:57pm

            Don't make the mistake of blaming Gillard solely for programmes that went across multiple ministers' portfolios and related departments. Like her predecessor, she is not solely responsible for all of these things. Perhaps she made a mistake in going to an election too soon, believing that being validated as leader by the public was more important instead of just assuming she had a mandate to lead?

            Furthermore, at the end of the day, the worst the Govt did was not monitor things properly, and put way too much trust in people to do the right thing. Naive and stupid, but not corrupt. The number one responsibility for the rorting is with the greedy, selfish rorters themselves. Their shamelessness amazes me, and the only thing that amazes me more is the unwillingness on the part of others to hold those people accountable.

            Personally, I'd like a list. Names, companies and business addresses, please.

      • Jono :

        01 Aug 2010 6:20:28pm

        She has shown nothing in her term as prime minister that displays anything close to competence. Add in the total waste of the BER and the NAPLAN cheating into the mix you have a very unsafe pair of hand holding that office, she is quite likeable though, but I would have to say Tony Abbott is more intelligent.

          • DocMercury :

            01 Aug 2010 9:35:57pm

            Or the writers of his "script" are, as the faceless cogs to the machine of the Lib-Nats as it goes to work on behalf of transnational corporate coal, asphalt, concrete and "cheap" aluminium smelting.

  • swinging voter :

    31 Jul 2010 4:55:20pm

    Hi Laruen

    I like your article although it was missing a couple of key fundamentals. People "need" and want choice. People want democracy as opposed to the autocratic decision making that has been going on in the last three years.

    I think people also want "merit based management" of Austrlaia's human resources. As a general observation, For some bizarre Kev07 attempted to instruct labor state govenrments to abandon merit based management of their public services and encourage cultural diversity. If you abandon merit based management then there has to be some way of discriminating between employees and it does not seem to have been debated as to how to discriminate between employees. Is this ethical? Do people want politicans with stronger ethic? NSW government seems to have abondaoned its ethical review and buries them under secrecy legislation....Do the people want more transparency from its government??

    Psychologist indicate that for people to be happy, they need to grow personally and develop on a personal level...they want a culture that embraces learning....one of the roadblocks to a learning culture is scapegoating.....is kev07 a scapegoat? what can we learn from the events surroding his departure??

    In answer to the question you pose, they want to grow personally, develop personally, unconditional love, express individuality and to achieve through learning...Apparently This is a text book answer from psychologists...

    Next question is, does Julia or Tony have a genuine interest in what it takes to make people happy on an emotional level??? or have they been blinded by a lust for power and dysfunctional task driven behaviour??

    Tony comes across as genuine..as for Julia, aaaah dont think so. julia wold not be in her position if being party leader was based on merit based selection, not with someone like Tanya & Greg Combet behind her....

      • Doug Quixote :

        01 Aug 2010 12:24:58pm

        "Tony comes across as genuine" Really?
        I don't think he can lie straight in bed.
        His first impulse is to lie, and then to consider whether some version of the truth might not serve the purpose.

      • jenbrad :

        01 Aug 2010 3:44:16pm

        Tony comes across as genuine? How exactly? I can remember many of his statements and actions since he's been in parliament, not to mention as minister, and the carefully scripted (and often stuttered) statements and promises he's making now, don't attract me one iota.

        And democracy is not solely about "leaders" - we elect a party to govern and its work is the total of its ministry and of the parliament. I'd like to see a bit less of the leaders and more focus on the whole shebang - what has each party got to offer in the way of talent, competence?

        And "cultural diversity" is not an abrogation of merit - any more than ensuring women were not unfairly discriminated against is bias in favour of women. Looking more seriously at cultural diversity means examining the way merit operates to see if there are policies and practices that are unfair and exclude otherwise worthy people. When women were required to resign from public services on marriage, that excluded all married women, stupidly. Similar things happen with other groups.

  • pilotyoda ®:

    31 Jul 2010 3:51:40pm

    my needs are simple.

    I expect a politician to have real policies, a vision for Australia which puts this country and its citizens first and to provide compassion and support for those less well off or with disabilities.
    I expect them to provide proper support and funding for (all) public health and education, with no taxpayer funding to be given to private providers. If someone has the extra finances then they can do the private thing, but not with my money.

    I expect them to properly answer question put to them, not spew forth unrelated garbage. I also expect them to take responsibility for their actions. I expect them to fight for the needs of their constituents and not be populist.

    I expect them to be very mindful of our environment, our society and its infrastructure and not allow profit for profit's sake to have priority over our lives.

    I also expect them to protect my safety and privacy without resorting to inquisitional laws that do not have adequate checks and balances for the rights of myself and the rest of our community.

    I may not get all this, but no-one gets my vote without addressing as many of these issues as possible. So far, the Greens are the only party that comes close for me.

  • chris :

    31 Jul 2010 2:30:57pm

    An attempt to absolve Julia - as good an example of the value-less journalism we see here every day.

  • Clotho :

    31 Jul 2010 2:28:48pm

    "Gillard needs to show some integrity"

    Oh dear.I suppose Abbott is full of integrity?People should be frightened of Abbott's repeated assertion that Howard is his mentor/hero.Have people forgotten just how flaky Howard's ministers were in the first term of the Howard government? 3 ministers had to resign for misappropriating travel allowances or covering it up.John Sharp,(Minister for transport I kid you not)David Jull,Administration Services Minister and Peter McGauran,Science and Technology Minister.Abbott emulating Howard?What a frightening thought.



      • Jono :

        01 Aug 2010 6:22:43pm

        I would hope that Abbott follows Howard, Howard never tried to destroy ordinary Australian's human right and before you talk about immigration Gillard hated Howard's policies so much she copied them.

          • jaycee :

            02 Aug 2010 10:09:29am

            One name..:Haneef

          • KD :

            02 Aug 2010 5:37:34pm

            Have you been in the workforce at all over the last 15-20 years? Or did you enter it after the Workplace Relations Act 1996? Howard worked very hard to destroy a lot of basic rights for many Australians. The fact that Abbott hero-worships Howard is proof enough he is not fit to lead.

            After all, this is the man who makes a mountain of his Catholicism, but in his behaviour is cruel, vindictive and spiteful. Dig up the footage of his effort in parliament laughing and smirking as he made fun of Senator Nick Sherry for having depression and attempting suicide - while he himself was Minister for Health, no less.

            That's how far down into the gutter he is.

  • Catherine Chin :

    31 Jul 2010 1:06:02pm

    This essay is so divorced from the real world it is hard to know where to start.
    "Delusions of trust may win votes but it's a quality irrelevant to governing."
    The attitude in this article betrays the current vogue in academia for denial of basic morality, which is the root reason for the absolute moral failure of our current crop of supposed intellectual leaders. Hence the disdain felt by those of us who work for our living for the chattering academic.

      • Mary2 :

        01 Aug 2010 6:11:37pm

        I always love the nouveau working class with their anti-intelligenzia snobbery.

        Dont trust intelligence, expertise or people who think! THEY dont actually WORK for a living.

        (Oh, and of course none of them have any morals - theyre all pinko, lefty chardonnay swilling lesbians after all).

  • blax5 :

    31 Jul 2010 1:00:45pm

    Is this the place for peculiar wants from the electorate? If yes, here's one of mine:

    Australian citizenship should not be granted after two years, but after five, in which the applicant must prove he/she can be squeaky clean.

  • Fred Jones :

    31 Jul 2010 12:14:43pm

    Leadership without trust is like a pencil without the lead; pointless and ineffective.
    Enough said.

  • Eric :

    31 Jul 2010 12:06:36pm

    This Voter just wants honesty, not core promises and non core promises.

    I would like a Party leader that makes his mind up then later does not do a 180 degree. How can you pay any attention to somone who leaps around like that. How can we have faith in a leader who does not want the Miners to pay their fair share. Bare this in mind, if the miners are not going to pay for what they take then it is you and I that will pay.

    I can understand if somone makes a promise, trys to impliment it but has it blocked. For the Libs it was too much for the greens it was not enough. The ALP must be in the middle ground, which means it must have a larger percentage of the Vote to get anywhere. It is so much easier to do nothing as we have come to expect from the people who have core promises.


  • Allan :

    30 Jul 2010 8:38:43pm

    Hi Lauren, on what planet do you live. At the moment Gillard has proven herself very loose with the truth, I am sure this is a talent which will go down well with internal as well as international affairs. She has proven herself out of touch with the majority of Australians with her summit on climate change. She has proven she can play "no talkies," and laughs about serious issues in Australian society.

    Gillard needs to show some integrity, then I may consider she has good leadership qualities, a good start would be by naming a cabinet and telling the Australian community what Labor intends to do with Rudd if he is elected.

    At the moment, it really appears that Gillard has been used by the power merchants in the Labor Party simply because she is a women and could possibly attract a vote. You may consider this good leadership potential, I certainly don't.

      • Gweneth :

        31 Jul 2010 8:01:40am

        Allan, something has been troubling me - perhaps you could help? If the majority of people say they want an ETS - and they do according to the polls - why would they punish Labor for not going harder on climate by shifting to Liberals who blocked the ETS and want to do nothing? Out of touch? Touch with what? What do you think the people want from a government on climate change?

          • Allan :

            31 Jul 2010 2:30:27pm

            Hi Gweneth, have you heard of human perception? Human perception is something which affects every human on the face of the planet, nobody is exempt from it. Human perception says I couldn't help you, your own intelligence would block me out simply because you already believe you have all the answers.

            There has never been a census on climate change or the ETS, so we really have no idea what the majority of Australians want. Polling can be as accurate or inaccurate as the random sample it generates.

            So following the course of human perceptions on the climate change issue, there is no one clear, cut and dry answer to what the people want.

              • Gweneth :

                01 Aug 2010 3:15:05pm

                Allan, thanks for the response. I am not sure I completely follow the your first paragraph - I will assume that you think that I will block you out because I think I have the answers. I assure you I don't. It was a genuine question and I was interested in what you make of this apparent contradiction. You believe that we don't really know what Australians want, and I don't mean to sound facetious here but wouldn't hat make a case for finding out? As you rightly point out, we don't appear to community consensus on the matter - at the very least confusion. So what would you do if you were in a position to do something? I am not sure what I would have done. Probably negotiate with the greens - but shifting my support to the Coalition under Abbott wouldn't have been logical. Turnbull - yes , I can see that logic.

                Which poll Michael - here's one:

                http://theangle.org/2010/07/21/marginals-poll-shows-increased-support-for-ets-wwf/

                and from Queensland too. (21 July 2010) Admittedly a WWF one but a poll nevertheless. And why would the polls show a drop in support for Rudd when he ditched the policy if there wasn't community support? So my question - why would you switch to Abbott? Or is that where the green vote is coming from? A question.

          • Michael :

            31 Jul 2010 6:08:33pm

            I don't know what polls you read but the polls I see most people don't want an ETS. They might have once until they realised the cost to their standard of living. Unfortunately the peddlers of the scheme were never very truthful with the true cost. It is interesting that in Victoria when registering your car you can pay to offset your carbon emissions. Only something like 250 Victoria's have apparently. Says a lot about people concerned about the planet. They don't want to pay themselves or change their lifestyles they only want someone else to.

              • Allan :

                01 Aug 2010 10:05:21am

                Hi Michael, where polls are concerned everybody will draw their own perception by what they see and which polls they take the most notice of.

                The average Australian will not look deeper into ETS than what they have to. Getting Johnnie or Suzie to do their homework, cleaning the house, paying the mortgage, getting to work, what they are going to do on the weekend et al, are more important and direct problems and issues that they need to deal with. Very few have even taken it into consideration how the costs of these schemes is going to effect them, many even think by taxing the power stations, will only effect the power stations, they haven't even stopped to take into consideration what flow on effects this is going to have on them.

      • Helvi :

        31 Jul 2010 8:02:28am

        Allan, don't you like women?

          • Allan :

            31 Jul 2010 2:34:22pm

            Hi Helvi, some very narrow minded thinking there, albeit I have come to expect that from your posts.

              • jaycee :

                01 Aug 2010 12:16:54pm

                Isn't he sooo sticky, Helvi?

              • Helvi :

                01 Aug 2010 9:56:49pm

                LOL, Allan, you are the very first one honouring me with this label; my sin has always been to be too broad minded, at least too broad minded for AUSTRALIA.

              • theseustoo :

                03 Aug 2010 11:43:36am

                Certainly too broadminded for the Drum, Helvi!

                :)

      • Mary Ann :

        01 Aug 2010 5:31:16pm

        Allan: would you care to evidence of your "loose with the truth" and "used by the power merchants of the Labor Party" statement? Give evidense of your own knowledge not smears direct from the Liberal Party dirt file - facts, dates and names not more waffle. I'm fed up to the teeth with inuendo, lies, allegations, smears and demands that Julia expose confidential information. Other Prime Ministers have not had to do this and nor should Julia.

          • Allan :

            02 Aug 2010 10:08:11pm

            Hi Mary Ann, if you ever get Labor and Liberal out of your brain and start looking at facts you may even find some answers and not your own political bias.

            Loose with the truth, let us start with the ETS. Have you heard Gillard say that every Australian is going to suffer because of this scheme? No she is deceitful, she knows most Australians will not look that deep and many will get the perception it is only the industries who pay this tax, it will not dawn on many that they will cop the flow on. Electricity by some suppliers in NSW up 60%, they already know many families won't be able to pay, and this is just the start.

            The same power brokers are still in Labor who put Rudd in the top position. If they had thought Gillard the best choice for the top job, they would have had her there at the last election. Unless of course you believe Labor is that moronic they would put their best candidate second.

            Being an elected member, Gillard shouldn't have any secrets from voters in her electorate. Every voter in her electorate has a fundamental and basic right to know exactly how she is voting on any issue for she is voting on their behalf. This means in parliament, in any investigation committee and even in Labor party meetings, they also have a basic right to know what she is thinking and saying, for she is representing their voice and their thoughts. This of course just doesn't apply to Gillard, it applies to every elected member, they are not their own voice, they are the voice of the people. I certainly wouldn't want a member who would downgrade pensioners and she wouldn't be talking for me.

            As far as Gillard's integrity goes, she has proven herself just as bad as every other politician before her. So she is the same as Howard, you are right every Prime Minister has been the same none of them have had the integrity to tell the whole truth, why should Gillard be any different.




  • sixstitcher :

    30 Jul 2010 7:47:04pm

    Ah, it is a wonderful world of which you speak. Do they accept boat people? I could get a boat.....

      • swinging voter :

        31 Jul 2010 4:58:12pm

        it might improve your employment opportunities..apparently labor has thrown out EEO so that it can discriminate in favor of migrants

          • KD :

            02 Aug 2010 5:40:42pm

            "Apparently"...a wonderfully useful word which ultimately means nothing.

            EEO is very much alive, thank you for asking.

  • The Seeker :

    30 Jul 2010 7:12:01pm

    What a relief to encounter a contributor to Unleashed who is not laying into Julia! Someone who at last has the grey matter herself to appreciate the impressive quality of the lady.

    How nauseated we are becoming with all this crap about midnight assassinations, back stabbing, about vested interested removal of an *elected prime minister*. What a nonsense that notion is! We elected the Labor party in 2007, and it just happened that the Labor party had elected Rudd as their leader beforehand. It would have made no difference if it had been Julia in the first place. And there most obviously were a lot more people in the government than Julia who saw, insightfully many would declare, that Kevin’s reflex, thus involuntary personality flaws were becoming a risk to their chances of success in the looming elections.

    And, for crissakes, still the line about the school building and the pink bats *debacles*, when anyone with the brains of a beetle knows the blame for all that lies with the shonky entrepreneurs that always come out from under wet stones whenever the chance to rip off great ideas shows up.

    And now all the indignation about the *leaks*! As if there have not been cabinet leaks before in governments of all persuasions down the years. How do you defeat people in politics whose sole motivation for being there is the pursuit of power any more than you can defeat people demented enough to strap explosives to their midriffs and blow the hell out of themselves as well as all around them?

    And when are the media moguls and their puppets with the pencils going to realise that the voting public are far from idiots? Just asking!

      • melsetter :

        30 Jul 2010 8:12:01pm

        Did you ever consider that perhaps the attention Gillard is getting is deserved.

        I don't think you will find anyone, and I mean anyone respectable, who would consider this government record as successful, historic, yes, but for all the wrong reasons.

          • jaycee :

            31 Jul 2010 1:53:09pm

            One can only conclude from your post that ;A. You are deliderately lying, B. you have another agenda for misrepresentatingthe truth or C. you are completely ignorant and devoid of ethical comment!

          • jim :

            31 Jul 2010 6:39:58pm

            Yes, one of the terrible twosome twins having to handle the mess the first left for the public to pay and dig their way out of. On a little matter.
            What do you think of 70 dollars a week for a pensioner to have a tv in a public hospital? And its 126 if they want 4 channels of fox on top.Not all pensioners own houses and holiday homes and thousands in funds.Many have already had the hell kicked out of them from circumstances that do befall people by chance and in a lifetime of top end overindulging. But you won't ever hear those stories. The reason given for not taking your own amusement is that it will get stolen.

              • Mary Ann :

                01 Aug 2010 5:55:27pm

                Jim: As I understand it having a TV in a public hospital is by way of a private contract. The way this works is that tenders are called to provide specific TV services - usually the Hospital accepts the cheapest tender. If this puts TV beyond the means of some patients, many of whom would be pensioners, it is an unfortunate fact of life but that is how the capitalist system works. Perhaps there is some welfare agency that subsidises people in hospital who are unable to pay the full amount? I think that you will agree that the very scarce "Health Dollar" should be used to provide absolutely essential health care before it subsidises TV. When Minister of Health Tony Abbott took a billion dollars out of the Health budget and has the view that some people choose to be homeless - would he advocate taxpayer funded TV for every bed?

              • Tomokatu :

                02 Aug 2010 5:01:44am

                Jim wailed:
                "What do you think of 70 dollars a week for a pensioner to have a tv in a public hospital?"

                I can honestly answer that, Jim. I AM a pensioner and I spent the first three months of this year in a public hospital with both legs broken.

                There was a TV set suspended over my bed. It was never turned on. During that three months, I watched 90 minutes of TV in total (Souths had an important game) on a public TV set, free, in the TV Room.

                The ward's library was excellent - I read several stimulating works, both of fiction and non-fiction and have started following one author. (I also read some trash. I never realised just how explicit those Mills & Boon bodice-rippers could get!)

                So, merely by virtue of being a pensioner, is TV an essential hospital service? No.

                Is TV a desirable hospital service? Not if you want our pensioners to remain alert and coherent.

                Is the cost of buying TV viewing rights in hospital too high? probably not. Make it $100 per day so that NOBODY can have their brains jellied.

                Oh yes, I actually bought a 2nd-hand laptop and raided various libraries of CDs and DVDs to watch films. I suffered no interruptions for commercial breaks, station identification, politically-biassed promotions of tabloid ambush trash (Tomo waves to TDT and ACA!) Total cost? Under $300 and I didn't have to turn off the laptop at 9:00pm so my wardmate(s) could sleep. I'm a late-night/early morning owl, so I was watching movies when the nurses (lovely people - should be more of them) changed shifts at 3:00am, WITH my earphones in.

                No fuss, no muss, no TV.
                Intelligent alternatives.
                So, Jim, feel free to take your TV and dispose of it responsibly. Pensioners don't need it, in hospital or elsewhere.

              • jim :

                02 Aug 2010 6:44:53pm

                I've had a post stripped.That's your personal dealings and applications Tomo. You know yourself that's not the case for what appears to be a majority of square eyed voters and aged and poor who's company and life is the tv and the "family" on it.Including the ABC, news and soapies etc.
                The people most likely to be more stressed isn't mrs or mr two houses, new car, smiles and bank account. It's the poor, aged and battered doing it hard again in hospital.Besides the pig elitist peerage direction of this countries wealth sharing, 10 or more hours a week at a minimum can be saved on nurses hips,legs, sanity and time from patient relief and distraction which also flows onto doctoring and pandemonium instead of causing hardship and class depressions on the poor. It's also 26 dollars for 2-3 hours parking per day for poor other halves and family visitors.
                It's the little things that count,like 25 years of hardship and complaints of banks and still now with successive govts if you don't receive your replacement card they will pull your other at an ATM on a weekend whether your broken down up the coast or buying supplies for a diabetic kid or visiting a chemist.Can't wait till Monday so you can address the matter. I don't know how they have any windows left.
                Sorry to hear of your hardship,wish you well, hope it wasn't from speaking up but it would be no surprise to me.

  • Craig :

    30 Jul 2010 5:48:02pm

    Trust is born from experience of integrity in another. Integrity is a charisma - to be perceived, not proven. The charisma of integrity is one part of leadership. Without integrity we are apt to put good things in wrong places, no matter how skilled we are. Story of a civilzation near you.

  • Clancy of the Undertow :

    30 Jul 2010 3:53:52pm

    Is this the first time a person has emphatically denied rumours that they are about to push for the top job? I think not. Cast your mind back to any of the last leadership spills and the mantra has been exactly the same. What do we expect? That the contender will announce weeks before that s/he has aspirations for the leadership? If you think that way then you are sillier than you look. (and I don't know what you look like.)

    Give the girl a break. She doesn't have to tell us how many times she warned Rudd about his leadership. She doesn't have to tell us what went on in cabinet. She doesn't have to tell us what job she has in mind for Rudd. Yes, she is PM and is answerable to the electorate, but there are limits to how much we need to know.
    Let's just get on with the thing.
    By the way, does anyone else think it strange that there will be a campaign launch in about two weeks from now? Doesn't LAUNCH mean BEGINNING?

      • Neil :

        31 Jul 2010 7:54:22am

        Clancy. Launch signals the end of both parties being able to sponge off the taxpayer's purse. Once the "official" launch occurs, all expenses must come out of their own party accounts.

  • dalma :

    30 Jul 2010 11:55:42am

    Dr Rosewarne has a point - or maybe three. The Oz hustings are chocka's with 'paper mache ' wannabe Politicians and their camp followers. Follow the paparazzi, and inevitably you will capture some clown in the background cozily nodding in agreement ! Why is it, there are so many contenders for so few seats in that frigid, sink-hole-out-of-touch sanguine phenomena,they call Parliament ? Why is it, Pauline Hanson keep's fronting up even though she espouses the same " belching fury " xenophobic manure ? It's called Polly-masochistic-syndrome. A dysfunctional psychological phobia which seems to be more infectious then the flu, but oddly enough isn't fatal ? The attraction, apart from a generous Superannuation, must lie in the show-biz and celebrity status, for sure. Why else ?

  • Michelle :

    30 Jul 2010 11:46:58am

    This sounds perverse but could our politicians actually be sucessfull at governance if they were trustworthy?

    How would they compete on the world stage, being the only ones telling the truth?

    We'd be r*fd by the chinese in no time!

  • Really :

    30 Jul 2010 9:58:12am

    Perhaps.
    Trustworthy, likeable, famous, and upstanding.
    I can't think of any of our past leaders, or those they beat in elections, who would unarguably tick all those boxes.

    But if you eliminate the superfluous famous, specify a strong primacy for trust over likeability, and update our definition of upstanding to match modern morals - perhaps meaning honest and unhypocritical, then it's not too bad a list of criteria.

  • seajae :

    30 Jul 2010 9:08:33am

    what amazes me is that rusted on labor voters like the yank below are screaming foer the media to stop picking on their guys or women and focus on the issues. In reality it doesnt matter to them as they will vote for labor anyway, the issues/policies dont matter as long as their leader gets up. For everyone else we are actually more concerned with what the results of this election will bring, we all know jg is a liar and backstabber, just look at her performances of the last few years, she will say and do whatever it takes to be the one, unfortunately for her we can see how she has been twisting the truth, yes lets see more on policy and more on her failed policy, I am sure the yank would love that.

      • the yank :

        30 Jul 2010 12:41:53pm

        Wrong Seajae, if you read my post I wanted the media to talk about issues not gossip.
        Some labor policies are not as good as Liberals and the same the other way.
        Those policies are exactly what each party will bring to our lives.
        If you are in need of hospital care over the next three years is it going to matter to you whether or not Gillard is married?
        The SMH quoting Abbott has made known that Abbott as a health insurance scheme that will help the disabled in mind, or so it seemed. Do you know the details of that scheme? This is the first I heard of such a plan.
        So better you know a failed leaders opinion of another failed leader who is commenting on the current leader?

          • melsetter :

            30 Jul 2010 2:07:30pm

            Yank, what matters to hundred of thousands of voters is if you are pensioner will Gillard punish you for not voting labor?

            If you want details, such as Abbotts/Liberal policies, or Gillard/Labor, check their website or give you local pollies office a call, just like I did. You get it straight from the horses mouth, so to speak!

              • Gweneth :

                31 Jul 2010 12:36:40pm

                If punished means delivering the highest increase in years I am confused.

              • BLZBob :

                01 Aug 2010 12:29:23pm

                melsetter
                Did Labor say you were going to be punished for being a pensioner when you rang and asked?

                Abbot would tell you that you will be rewarded for being a pensioner, but 11 years of liberal government would arm you with enough fact to know that that would just be another liberal party lie.

                howard punished pensioners for years, I don't know why they were dumb enough to keep voting for him.
                Promises that you too, could be just as rich as Rupert Murdock, begin to wear a little thin by the time you reach retirement age.

      • short memories :

        30 Jul 2010 3:52:49pm

        seajae

        I agree with the yank. We want policies including the detail. We want the option of assessing the merits of the policy offerings before voting . So far this week all that we have received is auction bids. And so far it is a blind auction.

        Am I to take it that you are so enamoured with Tony that you will be voting Liberal and nothing else matters but winning?

          • Tomokatu :

            30 Jul 2010 7:24:58pm

            shortmemories suggested of seajae:
            "...nothing else matters but winning?..."

            Heavens, no, shortmemories, it's FAR more important to denigrate and demean whoever dares to stand as a candidate for any political party against the Anointed Ones, the Born to Rule political arm of the secret oligarchy. Labor, Greens, Sun-Ripened Tomato Party, it doesn't matter what their policies are, just start slinging epithets and abuse like "liar and backstabber" and unsupported assertions like "twisting the truth" & "failed policy" when we all know - those of us who actually look at the facts, that the policy of the stimulus spending which was derided as a 'cash splash" has been completely successful in maintaining the economy, that the BER has been massively successful for the vast majority of projects. Out of 14,000 projects, only 100 complaints.

            Even the insulation scheme which attracted the shonky private contractors who caused fatal accidents through shoddy workmanship and hurried installation, was successful in its main task of funnelling stagnant money from the trousers where the Howard/Costello fanatics had secreted it back into circulation, at a time when it was needed.

            Even shonky contractors have to pay bills and eat - though I'd not mind if they did that while in secure Government accommodation, say, Pentridge or Long Bay.


            You see, shortmemories, it's the News Limited tactics, learned so well from Dr Goebbels, to shout the untruths as loud and as often as you can. It's amazing just how many of the uneducated and uninterested public can be brought to believe the Big Lie with enough repetition.

            Seajae is part of a long tradition.

              • melsetter :

                30 Jul 2010 9:18:40pm

                really, I thought that was the tradition of the unions.

              • Gweneth :

                31 Jul 2010 8:13:37am

                Oh dear! The unions - those groups of Australian taxpayers and voters - now have more propaganda clout than the MSM? They are so versatile - without then most of you posters would have nothing to say and no argument.

                The Work Choices campaign succeeded because it actually delivered the truth - nice change in the advertising world. My teenage daughter discovered politics when her pay was halved and then she was sacked for complaining under the work choices regime. "Your Rights At Work" were HER rights at work after that. And her trust in the benevolence of the boss and the bosses party has been seriously damaged ever since.

              • melsetter :

                31 Jul 2010 12:33:14pm

                Interesting!

                My daughter lost her job under the current labor government (Fair Choices) because she only worked and hour and a half.

                Minimum time one can now work is 3 hours, is that a success for thousands of first time workers, school kids and people wanting occasional part time work who have now missed out under Fair Choices?

                Facts can be a bitch!

              • jaycee :

                01 Aug 2010 10:22:16am

                Well, melsetter, you coulda' kept her on for that extra hour and a half , it wouldn't 'ave cost you much more!!

              • Gweneth :

                01 Aug 2010 3:25:45pm

                Certainly can. And her political understanding is shaped by her experience so I guess she will remember that when she votes. Was this job something she was planning a career in?


                For your information my teenage daughter was eighteen and was working full time in the hospitality industry.

                The rule you talk about is there for those workers who rely on such industries for survival and are now not crowded out of work so that school children can make pocket money.

                Who seriously only employs someone for an hour and a half? Most shifts are a minimum of three hours any way.

              • jenbrad :

                02 Aug 2010 1:52:26pm

                Unions - not just voters and taxpayers, but workers too. Thos epeople who work hard all their lives to provide for their families and their old age.

              • Political money :

                31 Jul 2010 9:52:33am

                Shouldnt ex-ministers and lobby groups be published in the media involved in the influence of policy be published in the media once a year?

                Information demonstrating influence of you the voter should be presented for use in vote decision making in the media as a compulsary measure?

                After all its as much the people influence policy behind the party that influence your vote when visiting the ballot box?

                If a lobby group is eg: say the WWF lobbying Labour for no-fishing zones to 30% of Australian Commonwealth waters in a bid for Green preferentials shouldnt that be published in the media be mandatory?

              • melsetter :

                30 Jul 2010 9:43:51pm

                I would suggest to defend the pink batts debarcle is a waste of time.

                Even Gillard is wisely avoiding this topic like the bubonic plague, so where is the good news? As I remember It was responsible for 4 deaths, a number of houses burnt to ruins and thousands of homes declared unsafe, and thousands more yet to be checked.

                Didn't Peter 'Beds are Burning' Garrett get demoted on that one?

                Tht stagnant 'surplus' from the previous Coalition that you conveniently failed to mention, just happened to save Australia from reccession. And have you given a moments thought what Gillard would do if we had a DD reccession, thats right she refused to answer that one. No surplus to rely upon this time just $57 billion in debt.

                I'm not interested in the name calling and making references to Goebbels,thats just plain stupid! what I am genuinely interested in is if the incumbent government can actually govern responsibly, make good use of the taxpayer funds and maintain a healthy economy without relying upon $100 million dollars a day to keep it going.

                Don't you and everyone want the same?

              • Tomokatu :

                30 Jul 2010 11:04:29pm

                melsetter ignored:
                "Tht stagnant 'surplus' from the previous Coalition that you conveniently failed to mention, just happened to save Australia from reccession...."

                Failed to mention???

                I covered the involvement of the previous Coalition government most adequately in my categorisation of "the Howard/Costello fanatics ..." and also initially raised the point with which you have agreed when I said "...successful in its main task of funnelling stagnant money ...".
                That DID save the country from recession as you admit.

                You see, the purpose of HAVING a temporary surplus is to spend it wisely. Sitting passively on the proceeds is not wise fiscal policy. I know it's sometimes called a "nest egg" but it won't hatch by itself.

                As far as a future "double-dip" let's just be grateful to Mr Rudd and his Cabinet who saved us from the first one.

                Should another crisis threaten, I have no doubt that the financial wizards in Treasury and the Finance Department know just what is going to be needed as circumstances change and that the Labor government has enough sense to do as their wizards advise - unlike Scrooge McDuck who just wanted to make his piles bigger and bigger.

                The necessary funds can be found.

                Nationalising the mining industry might be a very good start. Sequestering News Ltd assets would be another step forward and there are quite a few casinos around the nation which do not contribute to the common wealth of the Commonwealth.

              • melsetter :

                31 Jul 2010 8:33:15am

                What you are effectively wanting is communism.

                Failed everywhere, I'm sure North Korea would love to have you!

              • Robert2 :

                31 Jul 2010 11:52:26am

                China, our ally, fighting the fanatic fascists during WW2, seems to have done extraordinarilly well melsetter. We were in deep shite without our brothers the communists, Russia and China, taking on the lions share of the load and both nations have advanced while we comfortably accept the status quo.

                A blend of doctrines seems to be the way forward for the 21st century. Infrastructure and intelligent politicians with a vision for this country, not opportunistic shallow point scoring egoists, and comfortably ensconced bunyip aristocrats living in taxpayer funded delusional worlds of granduer.

              • jaycee :

                31 Jul 2010 1:58:24pm

                The devious plot you weave, melsetter, has all the hallmarks of Machiavelli...you obviously have no interest in facts or figures and are deliderately painting a false picture for your own or the Liberal Party's ends.Your silly accusation paints you as someone with little to say and less wit to say it!

              • DuckWalker :

                31 Jul 2010 10:07:31pm

                Nice bit of narkiness there, jaycee - can I interest you in buying a mirror?

              • jaycee :

                01 Aug 2010 8:53:01am

                If it was one of yours, Duck' I daresay it already portrays an ugly picture!

              • granny :

                31 Jul 2010 1:59:24pm

                Failed everywhere??? Which socialist countries bought us the GFC? Which socialist countries were affected by the GFC? What are you afraid of melsetter?? The big bogeyman of communism? I hate to tell you that there are more bigger bogeymen in the capitalist, read neo-cons, than there are in any piddling little communist country.

              • Tomokatu :

                31 Jul 2010 3:32:43pm

                And THERE you reveal yourself, melsetter - an old-fashioned reds-under-the-bed troglodyte (check the dictionary - a cavedweller) who's not prepared to give a fair go to any mindset that isn't driven by greed and personal self-interest.
                Remember that Adam Smith wrote of ENLIGHTENED self-interest.

                Better get some of that enlightenment.

              • Mary Ann :

                01 Aug 2010 6:21:34pm

                melsetter: The pink batts instalation program brought new regulations and responsibilies to an industry that has always been hazardous for the worker and the for the householder. Unfortunately some of those contractors subcontracted out to unscrupulous individuals who ignored the regulations and employed people who were untrained, inexperienced and/or possibly dishonest. Even under these conditions the rate of accidental deaths was 50% less per thousand instalations and I understand that there are 50% less housefires than previous to the ALP program. It is unfortunate that there was even one death or one fire but because the Liberal party declares homes to be unsafe does not make them unsafe and if the situation is safer than before, it can hardly be called a debacle.

              • Political money :

                31 Jul 2010 9:37:09am

                <quote>"You see, shortmemories, it's the News Limited tactics, learned so well from Dr Goebbels, to shout the untruths as loud and as often as you can. It's amazing just how many of the uneducated and uninterested public can be brought to believe the Big Lie with enough repetition."<endquote>

                Its amazing how business political "donations" can influence policy not directly but indirectly through advertising to the same people. Yet, yet isnt policy supposed to be driven by voters, people rather than consumed by an entity that essentially can capture large of quatities of votes such as properganda in example of the Ore tax when "Oil and Gas" already had the tax in place?

                Political donatons should be published in the paper once a year by both parties to implement true transparency to who has invested their interests?

          • Jono :

            01 Aug 2010 6:31:29pm

            Short memories and the yank why would you be concerned about the policies of the Labor, the term of the Rudd/Gillard government is full of failed policy implementation. They may be able to state the policies, but implementing them is another matter. Under this disastrous government unintended consequences became a common occurrence.

      • Gweneth :

        31 Jul 2010 12:45:44pm

        And you are not a rusted on Liberal voter who will vote Liberal no matter how good something like a National Broadband Network is?

        And as for what we know about Gillard and Abbott - they both have demonstrated over time a refreshing honesty and integrity in between the insatiable personality cult demands of the media and their insistence that they be all things to all people and more for no rhyme or reason.

        I will probably never vote Liberal because their policies do not look after me and are not consistent with my core beliefs, and by and large the Labor policies do. That actually makes sense. For your information I think that their education policies are on the wrong setting but in comparison with the Coalition - they still have to get the tick.

        This I think is the yanks point - how can people - who don't have the same political passion find enough information to make sound decisions amongst all the static? And more importantly - is that why the static is there? To make it harder?

          • BLZBob :

            01 Aug 2010 12:48:46pm

            What the liberals need is a leak that says how Tony opposed WorkChoices during secret meetings when it was being formulated.

            There would be plenty out there dumb enough to believe it, especially if the want to believe that it is dead, buried or cremated.

            "WorkChoices" not for me, or any of my children.

            Perhaps Rudd should have named his policy "The Mining Super Concession". it might have sucked in the "less alert" of the big mining companies.

      • BLZBob :

        01 Aug 2010 12:39:05pm

        Seajae
        I don't care who leads what party, the leader is irrelevant because of the way the system works, it is only relevant to idiotic uninformed and unimaginative swinging voters, the kind of people that read "WHO" magazine.

        I also don't care about policy detail, I prefer flexibility.

        What I do care about it the parties true and honest ideology, If I don't like what they stand for the detail is irrelevant.

        Any party who wanted to implement SerfChoices is never likely to deliver good policy on anything.

  • Bob Lansdowne :

    30 Jul 2010 9:02:52am

    No, I shall not want...but to ensure an equitable and honest performance, I'd like to see one taken at random every six months and put through the wringer, not once, not twice but thrice, just for stamps.

  • Helvi :

    30 Jul 2010 8:58:56am

    I want Julia and Abbott to look and sound like, well,Julia and Abbott!
    I hate watching these two robbots, and what's with those nodding puppets in the background?

  • MW :

    30 Jul 2010 8:57:20am

    I don't care about whether a pollie is like-able or entertaining, but I would like to be able to trust them to do what they say they will, and to not screw up the country.

    Part of leadership is having the trust of those you are leading to do the right thing.

  • gremlin :

    30 Jul 2010 8:45:51am

    Although I would take some exception to the use of the word 'we', I have to admit that the cult of celebrity being so pushed by our excuse for a media is becoming more and more a problem

  • the yank :

    30 Jul 2010 7:18:52am

    Talk about doing their job how about we start with the media.
    What have the media presented us so far?
    How Gillard dresses, her ear lobes, what she may or may not have said in cabinet, whether women are going to vote for her because of her gender, Abbott being joined on the campaign trail by his wife and daughters, that the christian right and muslims are against Gillard because she is unmarried and an atheist, all weighty topics to be sure but topics which have nothing to do with either parties ability to rule.
    Lauren, have you done an indepth article on the differences in policies each party is presenting regarding the taxes they are putting forward? Or maybe the plus and minuses of each parties environmental policies? Or their health care, infrastructure, education, welfare etc. policies?
    Look at what is on the front page of the media today...Latham says Rudd is the rat. Not just ABC but the Australian, and SMH. Well slap me down and call me silly.
    It is impossible to know which party is really going to deliver unless you guys get off your butts and start actuually talking about issues that really will mean something to the public's quality of life.
    Everything else you go on about is just chatter.

      • melsetter :

        30 Jul 2010 8:34:35am

        Yank, your comment "What have the media presented us so far?"

        Who needs the media!, we have you,your comments and knowledge of politics appears to be endless, bullet proof and without fault, your indepth knowledge shared on all good things labor stand for,and why labor has been so terribly misunderstood, and why in great detail we should be cautious of that "christian right' Abbott.

        Thank-you yank, we do enjoy your contribution, but I think I can separate the wheat from the chaff myself.

          • jaycee :

            30 Jul 2010 9:26:47am

            melsetter..not that the yank needs defending, he can do that quite adequately himself, BUT, the modus operandi of the Drum is this: A contributor puts up an article as a kick-off point, the first couple of postings set the mood and if you have noticed, there is an hiatus between them and a sudden influx of opoinons/rants that can continue for several days! These posts are in reality a staging ground for ones' strongly held views. No-one for a moment believes that they are going to convert anybody over to their own side of opinion, but it does give one the opportunity to KICK_ASS!!the opposing posters...thanking you for your time.

              • melsetter :

                30 Jul 2010 12:39:54pm

                Thankyou Jaycee, I too note your extensive views which are generously covered on most political subjects on ABC DRUM in which you endorse your 'strongly held views'

                Contrary to your statements, these forums do educate people and I believe have the power of persuasion, if the messenger is talented and skillful enough to provide a solid arguement, based on fact, readers will change their minds.


                While you, like the Yank, appear to strongly favor and support without question the incumbent government and all it's apparent flaws you never seem to go that one small step and say who you will vote for, are we then to asume you are a closet liberal?

              • jaycee :

                31 Jul 2010 9:11:36am

                The fact that you are "well aware" of my "strongly held views" and are yet not swayed to support those views and still do not seem to know to which party my opinions lean, proves two things : A. My powers of persuasion and B. your powers of perception have failed us both miserably!!

              • Robert2 :

                30 Jul 2010 2:51:36pm

                Not a bad way to look at it jaycee, I enjoy the input of others, don't necessarilly agree or disagree, but the forum is an opportunity to put forward ideas and thoughts. How the ideas, thoughts, and bias have been cultured is probably unique to every poster, that is what, to me, helps to maintain the interest in the site.

              • jaycee :

                01 Aug 2010 10:28:47am

                Yes, strongly and rightly agree, Robert, the "kick-ass" bit was for melsetters' benefit...he just loves those sort of things!

          • PassTheButter ®:

            30 Jul 2010 10:32:37am

            "Thank-you yank, we do enjoy your contribution, but I think I can separate the wheat from the chaff myself."

            Fair call, but you'd have to say it would be nice if there was a bit more wheat and a little less chaff!

          • Michelle :

            30 Jul 2010 11:49:55am

            Well, have your own say then!

            Oh, wait, you just did!

          • short memories :

            30 Jul 2010 3:57:41pm

            melsetter,

            I guess the yank is worried because he can see a similarity between Sarah Palin and Tony Abbott. Myself, I'd rather be choosing between Malcolm Turnbull and Julia Gillard.

              • melsetter :

                30 Jul 2010 7:10:17pm

                interesting thoughts,

                I can see similarities between Julia Gillard and Mark Latham.

                Myself, I'd rather be choosing between Tony Abbott and Kim Beasley(if he were still in government).

      • Pen Pal :

        30 Jul 2010 9:18:12am

        I don't think we should have to rely on the media to give us the difference in policies between the parties.

        We only need to go "on line" with the respective parties to find out for ourselves what each of them are offering.

        If a Party hasn't properly enunciated its policies, don't vote for them. But I would suspect the yank that you'll doggedly follow the voting slip of your local ALP candidate, irrespective of their policies.

  • VoR :

    30 Jul 2010 7:03:37am

    Democracy appears to be failing. Is it even possible for the ability to lead and rule wisely to be more closely reconnected to the ability to be elected?

    There's a lot to be said for the old system of hereditary nobility with people trained from birth in leadership and states craft.

      • gremlin :

        30 Jul 2010 8:52:06am

        What democracy gives us is a system where we can change the leader in an inflexible system, basically controlled by vested interests and pressure groups, and very little else.

        We have some choice between options provided to us by others but no or little say in what those choices are.

        A bit like giving someone the option(democratic choice) of being shot at dawn or hung from the nearest tree.

      • Pen Pal :

        30 Jul 2010 9:12:22am

        Wow VoR - that's really throwing something into the ring!

      • Gypsy :

        30 Jul 2010 9:35:04am

        It sure is a puzzle to know why many voters don't seem to engage with politics in a more serious way. That politicians make decisions about SO many aspects of our lives seems to not be understood by some people.
        I agree with many of the comments posted on The Drum sites that the media is letting us down.

        There is a lot of flim-flam in this campaign and it is of concern that some sections of the media think they are providing "entertainment".



      • jaycee :

        30 Jul 2010 11:33:30am

        I might suggest ; Sameul Pepys' Diary for a remedy for that ailment!

      • jenbrad :

        02 Aug 2010 2:00:12pm

        Oh dear - at present I'm reading a mystery about the 15th century when "nobility" and hereditary monarchy was in full swing. Might was power and heaven help those without it - give me our sort of democracy any day, we can even whinge about the participants without having our heads chopped off.